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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 9, 2013 15:30:40 GMT -5
Totally viable, but that was a complexity we specifically wanted to avoid. In the comics, claws that can cut through anything can cut through anything. Except for things they can't cut through. Same with energy swords wielded by mystic knights in a sci-fi setting that happens to take place a long time ago in a locale far, far away. It's always all-or-nothing. It works that way in the media that influenced P&P and it's much easier to do it that way as well.
Thus, we made it that way very intentionally,
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 9, 2013 15:24:46 GMT -5
Double before applying any pros or cons.
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Strike
Nov 9, 2013 15:23:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 9, 2013 15:23:33 GMT -5
It's never a bother. Happy to hear the solution works for you. That may make it into an errata/options release, so thanks for bringing it up.
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Strike
Nov 8, 2013 19:21:24 GMT -5
Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 8, 2013 19:21:24 GMT -5
Okay, here is what we would do. It's not perfect. And it might not be necessary (despite the very real issue of Strike being somewhat underpowered from a cost perspective, this issue did not come up for us). However, if the point balance issue is an issue in your group, consider this version of the Strike trait. OPTIONAL STRIKE VERSION You have some kind of close combat attack described when you select this trait. You can use this trait to attack and defend yourself in melee combat. The stronger you are, the less this trait costs: you get a 1 hero die discount on this trait for every 2 full hero dice you spend on Might. For example, a 3d Might grants you no discount, a 7d Might grants you a 2 hero die discount, and a 10d Might grants you a 4 hero die discount. You must still spend at least 1 hero die to buy this trait. If you spend hero points to increase your Might in the future, your Strike rank will go up by 1 point for every full 2 points by which you raise your Might rank. This change does 2 things: (1) you now get a discount based on how much you put into Might, and (2) you now cannot substitute your Might rank +1 for your Strike rank. You are still going to pay for Might (with its ability to lift stuff and impress people with your massive biceps) and for Strike (with its ability to be used as an active defense against melee) separately, but you will get some amount of discount for the overlap. It's not perfect -- an even numbered Might rank will effectively cost the same as the odd numbered Might rank below it (Might effectively costs the same as Might 7d because you get 1 extra hero die of discount) -- but it's good enough. And more importantly, it keeps Strike as a self-contained ability during game play "That's how many dice I roll.") and it doesn't require other sweeping changes.
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 8, 2013 18:59:37 GMT -5
cough ... Precognition (not to represent the ability to see the future but instead to represent the genius-level predictive/planning abilities) ... cough
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 8, 2013 18:58:09 GMT -5
Love the idea of a non-combat villain that stays out of the action and lets his devious machinations and less-than-devious mooks to the work for him.
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 8, 2013 18:53:57 GMT -5
Totally awesome. Oh, and you are very welcome!
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 8, 2013 18:52:20 GMT -5
Dang you guys for getting me thinking about random heroes .... :op
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Strike
Nov 8, 2013 13:25:25 GMT -5
Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 8, 2013 13:25:25 GMT -5
Hi!
First, thanks for the praise, but it's not necessary. You bought the game and it is yours to do with as you will. All I'm doing is giving you thoughts and ideas. And bad math! But again, thanks. Honestly, thank you for your interest in the game. Makes everything worthwhile.
Now, as to your comments. You are right about my math being wonky.
Your ideas are all good, and all viable on a quick review.
Regarding mundane items, there are a few things to keep in mind about them. One: they are items, so if you are comparing them to traits, consider that fact that those traits would have the Item flaw and be 1d cheaper. Two: they have the base 4d cap in place for everything, so any rank above 4d is effectively wasted on a mundane item. Three: they are not sacred, so unlike a character's Item-flaw-items, mundane items are subject to misfortunes (hello Adversity) like being damaged, destroyed, lost, stolen, etc. Thus, mundane items have "narrative" flaws that aren't really accounted for in just the numbers, but that should be taken into account.
Regarding design philosophy: Strike has to remain a trait because of the "That's how many dice I roll" element I mentioned earlier. That element of how the game works is more important to us than a perfectly balanced point cost economy. This is one instance where we feel that gameplay trumps game balance, and the ease of looking at Strike and knowing "That's how many dice I roll" is essential to our design. It's easier for younger gamers, and for newer gamers, and it's how we wanted the game to feel. So, whatever we do, at least ... drum roll please ... OFFICIALLY (trumpets, fanfare) we have to keep Strike as a trait.
One last thing: the game was playtested a lot, so we want to avoid too many changes or changes that are too sweeping. One change trips a lot of dominoes, including ones you didn't expect. Many changes or sweeping changes would require lots more playtesting.
All that said, you are right about the math. So let us noodle on it for a bit ....
Thanks! Len
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Strike
Nov 7, 2013 16:44:59 GMT -5
Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 7, 2013 16:44:59 GMT -5
You are correct. Strike is somewhat underpowered, especially so if you also have a reasonably good Might rank. Now, remember, if your Strike rank is less than your Might rank, you use Might + 1d, but that still may not be enough to properly model a certain character.
The reason we did it this way has less to do with game balance and more to do with game play: we wanted you to look at your Strike rank and say "That's how many dice I roll."
Your suggestion is good, but (1) I'm hesitant to let anyone spend only 1 hero die to use their full Might as an active defense, even though it will degrade by 2d if you also use it to attack on the same round of comabt, and (2) I would still like a player to be able to look at the Strike trait and say "That's how many dice I roll."
Consider this tweak, based on your idea:
Muscle Powered (+3d): This pro means that your Strike rank starts at your Might rank +1 instead of at 3d. The first hero die you put into gives you Strike at your Might rank +1, the second raises it to your Might rank +2, and do on. Your Strike rank is still limited to your trait cap.
By adding this pro, what you are effectively doing is paying 3d extra to be able to use your attack as an active defense against melee attacks. Might 10d = cost 8 hero dice: a 10d attack that cannot be used to defend.
Might 6d + Strike 10d (Muscle Powered) = cost 11 hero dice (4 for Might + 7 for Strike): a 10d attack that can also be used as an active defense
Might 2d + Strike 10d (Muscle Powered) = cost 11 hero dice (11 for Strike): a 10d attack that can also be used as an active defense
Might 9d + Strike 10d (Muscle Powered) = cost 11 hero dice (7 for Might + 4 for Strike): a 10d attack that can also be used as an active defense
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 7, 2013 15:35:59 GMT -5
Awesome.
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Strike
Nov 7, 2013 15:35:17 GMT -5
Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 7, 2013 15:35:17 GMT -5
Thinking ....
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 6, 2013 14:06:53 GMT -5
Now I gotcha. I think there are 2 ways to handle that.
The first way would be to just allow you to use the Strike trait in place of Might when armed with a mundane weapon. Honestly, I would be fine with this because you still have the 4d cap applied to your traits when using a mundane weapon. At best, you are giving the character 2 extra dice when armed with a mundane weapon (when it comes to supers, mundane weapons are kind of ... well, mundane).
The second way would be to use the Variant pro. Here's a simple example:
Strike (blunt) 10d (Item: battle staff; Variant: see below) Strike Variant (blunt) 9d
--Strike (blunt) 10d (Item: battle staff) costs you 7 hero dice. --You then spend 2 more hero dice for the Varient pro, giving you a 7 hero die variant of the Strike power (remember you don't take the cost of the Variant pro into account when creating a variant power). --In this case, you end up with Strike 9d.
Flavor-wise, this kind of makes sense: you do a bit more damage when armed with some kind of weapon. This was one of the scenarios expressly considered when we came up with the Variant pro. It works the same way for a mage character who does more damage when he channels his magic blast through his wand.
I hope this helps. Len
PS: In the example above, you could also swap the Fighting con for the Item con. The Fighting con means that the Strike power applies only when you are armed with mundane melee weapons (of whatever kind). The weapons themselves have no real game effect, but you have to be armed with them to use the Strike power. In effect, this works just like the Item con, but instead of representing one unique melee weapon, they represent your crazy skill with all melee weapons. This might be another way to get where you're trying to go.
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 6, 2013 9:59:47 GMT -5
Strike. It's all Strike. Strike gives you your melee attack, and can be used as melee defense. Claws, martial arts, energy punch, crushing cyber-arm, flaming-fist of fu, tickle powers of the underworld, whatever .... it's Strike. Give it the Item option, and you now have any kind of melee weapon you want.
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Post by LakeSide Len on Nov 5, 2013 17:08:14 GMT -5
Thanks!
If the suggestions I provided for the Blast and Strike traits give ranks that feel too low for whatever characters you have in mind, then you could always try this:
Armor ?d (Active; Inhibited: can't be used when using shield to attack; Impenetrable; Item: shield) Blast ?d (Item: shield, Ricochet; Underpowered) Strike ?d (Item: shield; Underpowered; Variant: see below) Strike Variant ?d-1 (Underpowered)
The Underpowered option means the trait's rank reflects more extreme skill than pure power, so the attack has a lesser effect when resisted with a passive defense. That will save you 4 hero dice (2 for each trait). Or you can drop that option and just assign whatever rank you deem appropriate. Adding the Variant pro lets you spend 2 hero dice to create an extra Strike trait, this one reflexting his unarmed skill. And since the variant lacks the Item option, it's rank has to be 1d lower (the rank of a variant trait varies depending on is pros and cons ... in effect, a variant trait must cost the same as the original trait, without taking the Variant pro into account).
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